MMP POOR SERVICE, POOR QUALITY, FALSE MARKETING (PERSONAL EXPERIENCE)

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May 18, 2017
43
Netherlands
#1
First of all I want to say it is not my style to bash or talk bad about vendors we all make mistakes so I prefer to give them a chance and also the benefit of the doubt. Unfortunately, this situation needs to be public so that the vendor will either improve (which is what I hope for) or others can be warned and not have the same financial loss, loss of time, or potential damages that I have experienced.

I bought a MMP PI kit on 07/2017 that was part of the Precision Raceworks Elite Fueling Solution. The port injection kit came with the famous “fomoco” injectors MMP has became known for having quality issues with leaking, not working, not flowing correct, etc. On January this year my build was at the point I needed to install the fueling system, so I had my mechanic do the work and install the kit.

After install of the kit they could not get the car to run right and I spent money having to have them figure out what was wrong. Ultimately, we decided it was possibly the injectors, but I did not want to blame MMP for bad injectors instead I sent them to an injector service company. The results came back that the injectors were flowing more than 28% apart! Bosch OEM standards are 5% and performance injector companies flow within 2%. In addition, his marketing claimed these were 750cc injectors but as you see below some only flow half of that and none are near 750cc. The highest injector flowed 48% less than advertised!
Actual injector flow numbers sent to MMP
Injector 1 460 cc
Injector 2 395 cc
Injector 3 475 cc
Injector 4 415 cc
Injector 5 370 cc
Injector 6 450 cc

With that info I contacted MMP with my problems and provided the flow data as well. The response I got was “I sell injectors now that are matched to within 1% and made by Bosch OEM. They are more expensive injectors. I can sell you a set for $375.”. In response to this I sent Mauricio a second email explaining again that the kit was less than a year old. I am the original purchaser. And the injectors were only in the car for a month, so these injectors were like this new out of the box. I asked if there is not a warranty or courtesy that could be used to make this right?
In response he stated “I have some other injectors here that are within 5% that I can sell you for $200 at a discount. They are not Bosch but are good injectors. Bosch spec is within 5% as well. To get within 1% requires testing and matching above an beyond Bosch spec.”. I was very disappointed that now he was trying to sell me fake Bosch injectors (why does he have these anyways?) and has not once addressed the fact that my injectors were defective. He wants to make money is all he wants he doesn’t care that it is his fault not mine that I need injectors in the first place. Proper quality control or not selling injectors that you know have issues to save a buck and drive profits then making the customer eat it is not right.
As a final hope I reached out to Precision Raceworks who I purchased the kit through. They reached out to MMP and explained the situation again and copied me. They basically told Precision Raceworks they don’t care (this is the exact reply).
“Here is the warranty policy posted on our website https://mmp-e.com/pages/mmp-store-policies

I have went back and forth trying to decide if I should post the reply email Precision Raceworks sent to MMP (Mauricio) and ultimately decided I should. This is to keep there from being anyone saying “MMP wouldn’t do that they have good customer service”. The way they typed the email is what I had been trying to say but English is not my first language I am not from the USA.

Mauricio,
The customer did not receive what was paid for and this is a known issue by both you and the rest of the BMW community. We will replace the injectors ourselves if that is what is needed to make the customer whole but would first like to give you the chance to reconsider your stance. The injectors included in his kit do not meet the advertised information provided to us or what was listed on your website. Asking the customer to pay for this is very poor customer service. This is not a standard warranty situation this is a situation of the customer provided payment for a product and the product was not as advertised. Furthermore, the customer has spent time and money to discover the issue was that he did not receive what he paid for.


You know what the right thing to do is please let us know if you will step up to the plate and do it. If you won’t we will simply do it for the customer and eat the $380. But this is a simple situation where the customer deserves to receive what he paid for.

Best Regards,
PR Sales Team

After that email MMP / Mauricio started working with me. They agreed to send free replacement injectors if I paid $45 shipping. I was glad to see MMP was willing to make the situation right finally and more than happy to pay $45 to get my issue resolved.

Well guess what showed up at my doorstep…. Knockoff Bosch Injectors from China…

IMG_7611.jpg

There are several ways to inspect injectors to confirm they are China Fakes you can find more on the internet if you like but the easiest was what I found below. Fake injectors out of China use a brass ringed “filter” inside the injector which was their work around for assembly (if you remove this filter the injector is trash). Bosch does not and has never used this filter and are fully serviceable. Also Bosch has never printed 800cc on their injectors like shown in the first photo (this was what started the google search to see if these were fakes).

Bosch_Fake_Real.jpg

injector.jpg


Anyways I learned my lesson and will not be supporting a company that misleads, misrepresents, and refuses to take responsibility. I did everything in my power to work with them only to waste more money and more time getting more low-quality product as replacements. I am sharing this so that others can know the truth about MMP and Mauricio. Hopefully they change their policy and improve quality, so they can be a good business. I however will not buy from MMP again as I can’t support any person or business that knowingly misleads customers with false marketing and poor-quality control.
 
Oct 17, 2017
235
#2
Good to know, always though they were just another one of those companies on this platform that are trying to sell low quality products through made up data and false marketing, guess I wasn't wrong.
 
Jun 27, 2017
109
#3
Thanks for the heads up. That's another company I can add to the list of people not to do business with.
 

NoQuarter

Lieutenant
Nov 24, 2017
867
Indiana
#4
No amount of response from MMP will fix this for me.

MMP is off the list. And won't be recommended to other BMW enthusiasts I support.
 
May 4, 2017
1,756
Plano TX
#5
@[email protected] can comment on how hard it is to operate in this space. I’m not condoning the behavior but I do understand the insane complexity involved in being a vendor.
 

langsbr

Lieutenant
Apr 5, 2017
707
#6
I can see both sides of the issue here. Yes, there were known issues with injectors. However, at the same time, if I read everything correctly, the products were purchased and not installed for 5+ months. With a 90 day warranty, this is 2 months out of warranty.

I know I would not be happy in the same situation, but also, why do people in the auto performance industry think that the warranty doesn't start when an item is purchased? If you purchase a Samsung TV from Best Buy but don't take it out of the box for a year, and it's DOA, Samsung will tell you to go fly a kite, and likely won't have any "goodwill" effort.

That being said, I wonder if there is just a misunderstanding with regards to what was being sent as a replacement. Mauricio has always been fantastic to work with and very helpful. Everyone that immediately dismisses a company based on this single incident is simply doing themselves a disservice. It will take more than this single instance with known issues to prevent me from purchasing from MMP (again).
 
Nov 5, 2016
259
San Antonio, Texas
#7
The minute I saw that they took Motiv's pictures and used them on their own site to advertise their own engine building service (which I don't even think they do in house) and the part of the warranty on the turbos that voided it due to running burbles (since changed after some backlash), I knew what type of people they were.
 
Jun 27, 2017
109
#8
@langsbr That's the thing, it's not a single incident . They've already got a couple strikes against them in my book. Why gamble with my money to give them more chances?
 

Milan

Corporal
Dec 24, 2016
127
jebi se
#9
+1 For PR in this whole fiasco, they really stand behind their products and I have bought a few things from them. Sorry to hear about MMP, for the price it should have been obvious the injectors were fake.
 
Jan 28, 2018
698
Parts unknown
#11
First of all I want to say it is not my style to bash or talk bad about vendors we all make mistakes so I prefer to give them a chance and also the benefit of the doubt. Unfortunately, this situation needs to be public so that the vendor will either improve (which is what I hope for) or others can be warned and not have the same financial loss, loss of time, or potential damages that I have experienced.

I bought a MMP PI kit on 07/2017 that was part of the Precision Raceworks Elite Fueling Solution. The port injection kit came with the famous “fomoco” injectors MMP has became known for having quality issues with leaking, not working, not flowing correct, etc. On January this year my build was at the point I needed to install the fueling system, so I had my mechanic do the work and install the kit.

After install of the kit they could not get the car to run right and I spent money having to have them figure out what was wrong. Ultimately, we decided it was possibly the injectors, but I did not want to blame MMP for bad injectors instead I sent them to an injector service company. The results came back that the injectors were flowing more than 28% apart! Bosch OEM standards are 5% and performance injector companies flow within 2%. In addition, his marketing claimed these were 750cc injectors but as you see below some only flow half of that and none are near 750cc. The highest injector flowed 48% less than advertised!
Actual injector flow numbers sent to MMP
Injector 1 460 cc
Injector 2 395 cc
Injector 3 475 cc
Injector 4 415 cc
Injector 5 370 cc
Injector 6 450 cc

With that info I contacted MMP with my problems and provided the flow data as well. The response I got was “I sell injectors now that are matched to within 1% and made by Bosch OEM. They are more expensive injectors. I can sell you a set for $375.”. In response to this I sent Mauricio a second email explaining again that the kit was less than a year old. I am the original purchaser. And the injectors were only in the car for a month, so these injectors were like this new out of the box. I asked if there is not a warranty or courtesy that could be used to make this right?
In response he stated “I have some other injectors here that are within 5% that I can sell you for $200 at a discount. They are not Bosch but are good injectors. Bosch spec is within 5% as well. To get within 1% requires testing and matching above an beyond Bosch spec.”. I was very disappointed that now he was trying to sell me fake Bosch injectors (why does he have these anyways?) and has not once addressed the fact that my injectors were defective. He wants to make money is all he wants he doesn’t care that it is his fault not mine that I need injectors in the first place. Proper quality control or not selling injectors that you know have issues to save a buck and drive profits then making the customer eat it is not right.
As a final hope I reached out to Precision Raceworks who I purchased the kit through. They reached out to MMP and explained the situation again and copied me. They basically told Precision Raceworks they don’t care (this is the exact reply).
“Here is the warranty policy posted on our website https://mmp-e.com/pages/mmp-store-policies

I have went back and forth trying to decide if I should post the reply email Precision Raceworks sent to MMP (Mauricio) and ultimately decided I should. This is to keep there from being anyone saying “MMP wouldn’t do that they have good customer service”. The way they typed the email is what I had been trying to say but English is not my first language I am not from the USA.

Mauricio,
The customer did not receive what was paid for and this is a known issue by both you and the rest of the BMW community. We will replace the injectors ourselves if that is what is needed to make the customer whole but would first like to give you the chance to reconsider your stance. The injectors included in his kit do not meet the advertised information provided to us or what was listed on your website. Asking the customer to pay for this is very poor customer service. This is not a standard warranty situation this is a situation of the customer provided payment for a product and the product was not as advertised. Furthermore, the customer has spent time and money to discover the issue was that he did not receive what he paid for.


You know what the right thing to do is please let us know if you will step up to the plate and do it. If you won’t we will simply do it for the customer and eat the $380. But this is a simple situation where the customer deserves to receive what he paid for.

Best Regards,
PR Sales Team

After that email MMP / Mauricio started working with me. They agreed to send free replacement injectors if I paid $45 shipping. I was glad to see MMP was willing to make the situation right finally and more than happy to pay $45 to get my issue resolved.

Well guess what showed up at my doorstep…. Knockoff Bosch Injectors from China…

View attachment 12505

There are several ways to inspect injectors to confirm they are China Fakes you can find more on the internet if you like but the easiest was what I found below. Fake injectors out of China use a brass ringed “filter” inside the injector which was their work around for assembly (if you remove this filter the injector is trash). Bosch does not and has never used this filter and are fully serviceable. Also Bosch has never printed 800cc on their injectors like shown in the first photo (this was what started the google search to see if these were fakes).

View attachment 12503

View attachment 12504


Anyways I learned my lesson and will not be supporting a company that misleads, misrepresents, and refuses to take responsibility. I did everything in my power to work with them only to waste more money and more time getting more low-quality product as replacements. I am sharing this so that others can know the truth about MMP and Mauricio. Hopefully they change their policy and improve quality, so they can be a good business. I however will not buy from MMP again as I can’t support any person or business that knowingly misleads customers with false marketing and poor-quality control.
Quick question.Did you flow test the injectors they sent?
 
Jan 28, 2018
698
Parts unknown
#13
Ummm. He posted flow test results and said he sent them to MMP. Or do you mean the second set they sent?
The question is, if he tested the injectors they sent to “rectify “ the issue. If they do flow their claims,then He has less of a chance to his money back. If you paid with a credit card most companies will give you a 2 year warranty. Or extend any warranty for a year. Let them know the vendor fucked you over, and ask them to pull the funds. Send over your emails printed. This worked for me, except it was for a n54 motor. Good luck
 
Aug 11, 2017
1,618
Virginia
#14
... the reply email Precision Raceworks sent to MMP (Mauricio) ...

Mauricio,
The customer did not receive what was paid for and this is a known issue by both you and the rest of the BMW community. We will replace the injectors ourselves if that is what is needed to make the customer whole but would first like to give you the chance to reconsider your stance. The injectors included in his kit do not meet the advertised information provided to us or what was listed on your website. Asking the customer to pay for this is very poor customer service. This is not a standard warranty situation this is a situation of the customer provided payment for a product and the product was not as advertised. Furthermore, the customer has spent time and money to discover the issue was that he did not receive what he paid for.
I can see both sides of the issue here. Yes, there were known issues with injectors. However, at the same time, if I read everything correctly, the products were purchased and not installed for 5+ months. With a 90 day warranty, this is 2 months out of warranty.
@langsbr Just curious since you can see both sides, can you explain to me how the red text (note this was not even written by the customer but by Precision Raceworks who SOLD the product) is not fraud? And if it is fraud, how do you conclude that has anything to do with warranty? Even the PR note above says it is not a "standard warranty situation" I must be missing something.

As a for instance - if you paid me for a turbo with a 90-day warranty, and I send you an empty box, does that fall under a 90 day warranty in your eyes?

Filippo
 

langsbr

Lieutenant
Apr 5, 2017
707
#16
@langsbr Just curious since you can see both sides, can you explain to me how the red text (note this was not even written by the customer but by Precision Raceworks who SOLD the product) is not fraud? And if it is fraud, how do you conclude that has anything to do with warranty? Even the PR note above says it is not a "standard warranty situation" I must be missing something.

As a for instance - if you paid me for a turbo with a 90-day warranty, and I send you an empty box, does that fall under a 90 day warranty in your eyes?

Filippo
I think your empty box analogy isn't valid. Did the purchaser receive injectors? Yes. Were they defective? Yes. Does that mean that any time someone gets a defective item they "didn't get what was paid for?" That depends on your view. I still feel that my analogy with a TV is better - let's say the TV isn't even DOA, let's say it's messed up and only displays on 40" of a 60" screen. You still got a 60" screen, it's just defective. If you didn't look at it until 3 months after the warranty ran out, is that the manufacturer's fault?

As for the second set of injectors, why would the purchaser expect something different than what was originally purchased? Sounds like he's just upset that he didn't get the "new" stuff that comes with Bosch injectors. The "bosch style" injectors were fine when purchased originally, but now they aren't good enough? If the replacement injectors work, then the warranty was satisfied, even past its time.
 
Apr 24, 2017
162
#17
I think your empty box analogy isn't valid. Did the purchaser receive injectors? Yes. Were they defective? Yes. Does that mean that any time someone gets a defective item they "didn't get what was paid for?" That depends on your view. I still feel that my analogy with a TV is better - let's say the TV isn't even DOA, let's say it's messed up and only displays on 40" of a 60" screen. You still got a 60" screen, it's just defective. If you didn't look at it until 3 months after the warranty ran out, is that the manufacturer's fault?

As for the second set of injectors, why would the purchaser expect something different than what was originally purchased? Sounds like he's just upset that he didn't get the "new" stuff that comes with Bosch injectors. The "bosch style" injectors were fine when purchased originally, but now they aren't good enough? If the replacement injectors work, then the warranty was satisfied, even past its time.
im gonna chime in here, I dont agree with the TV analogy. The customer did not receive the product that he paid for at all, which was a 750cc injector (and even a Bosch made injector on the second go round). He received a 460cc injector at best, and then a Chinese made knock off injector on the second round after being promised an actual Bosch injector.

this would be the equivalent of buying a 60' TV and receiving a 40 inch TV, not a 60 inch one with only 40 inches of screen working but an actual 40 incher itself.

the customer did not receive the product that was paid for, and since this was not corrected or refunded given the opportunity, this would count as fraud (atleast in my book)
 

langsbr

Lieutenant
Apr 5, 2017
707
#18
Different strokes for different folks. They were defective and didn't flow what they should have, as evidenced by the flow numbers. We also don't know what the flow numbers were tested at. A 750cc injector at 72psi is not a 750cc injector at 43psi, so there is a difference there. Granted, even at 43psi testing, these would be on the 600cc range, but again - that's defective. I do not believe that Mauricio knowingly put in 600cc injectors when he advertised them as 750s.

There is definitely a liberal millenial bent in here with all these claims of fraud.

It's also interesting that everyone has completely discounted the fact that they were not installed for months after the warranty had expired...
 

langsbr

Lieutenant
Apr 5, 2017
707
#19
And just to be clear, I don't own the MMP PI kit, nor would I purchase it (or any other PI kit). I don't care if Santa Claus made it and promised me the world from it, I'm not a fan of any PI kit. Let's all just put carbs on our cars too.
 

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